We’re On “Thought For The Day” (Well, A Reaction To Us At Least…)
23.10.08 | Jon - Webmanager |
ABC, BBC, Censorship, Radio, Radio 4, Rosemary Lain-Priestley, Thought For The Day, Today Programme
It’s the bastion of the religious establishment: Thought for the Day on the Today Programme on BBC Radio 4. The problem is that atheists and humanists are barred from making presentations on the two and a half minute slot, but that didn’t stop Rosemary Lain-Priestley criticising the atheist bus campaign on today’s Thought for the Day. Click here to get to the recording of the progamme - 1:50:50 in. If you think we should be able to state our case then you can contact the Today Programme here.
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:26
I just thought i’d share my email i sent to the today programme:
Dear Sir / Madam, I would just like to register my interest in having the Today programme’s ‘Thought for the day’ slot opened up to Humanist and atheist points of view, especially in light of Rosemary Lane Preistley’s criticism of the Atheist bus campaign. Being an atheist it saddens me that some people who hold differing beliefs about the world we all live in are effectively silenced in this forum. Many thanks
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:45
Thanks!
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:02
The Controller of Radio 4, Mark Damazer, is quite adamant about not allowing non-religious thoughts for the day. His response to the question was recently published by the NSS:
http://www.secularism.org.uk/bbcthinksitsjobistopromotereligi.html
Such gems as “TfTD is commissioned as a theological reflection on current events. It is not an opinion piece.” and “Their authority is drawn from faiths that have survived the centuries, including periods of persecution and intense scrutiny and still proved themselves valid.” makes it worth reading!
Appreciate the free advertising from Ms Preistley though!
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:25
Given that ‘Thought for the Day’ is, by Mr Damazer’s definition then, a theological piece, it should be titled ‘Theological Thought for the Day’.
In the interests of plurality and inclusiveness, perhaps Radio 4 should create space for an ‘Atheological Thought for the Day’ and, thus, cover all of the bases with room for secular musings too.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:29
One could, indeed, argue that atheist thought has the same long tradition, has survived for centuries despite persecution and scrutiny, and remains valid today as this campaign has admirably demonstrated.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:31
I complained thus :
“A brief note to complain about Thought for the Day. That it should be reserved for “faith perspectives” only in the 21st century is shameful.
The slot is typically used to express a topical, societal concern of some form, with a faith based slant. While often worthy and well meaning, it is concerning that people with belief systems inimicable to the good functioning of a mixed , global society are given airtime at the expense of others. Indeed it can be argued that faiths represent the greatest danger to the good functioning of society, as evidenced by the news headlines of the last seven years. Highly disturbing beliefs are given common currency and promulgated as ethical or factual in the name of faith, while the thoughts of a moral sector of society, concerned for the civil society, are suppressed.
If atheists, humanists, Brights or other thinking and concerned groups are excluded then there is a wilful bias by the BBC against a huge proportion of our society. They should be given access to this slot, or their own slot.
Perhaps, given that “thought” and “faith” are diametrically opposed, and thinking members of society are deliberately excluded, the slot should be renamed Fairytale of the Day.
Yours,
Ivor Middleton”
Yeah, I know, I sound as if I want to stick a lighted cracker in someone’s bum !
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:33
I was informed that the link to the programme wasn’t working. I’ve now corrected it!
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:35
The correct link is
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/thought/
My response was as follows:
Today’s “Thought for the Day” has Rosemary Lain-Priestley speaking about the atheist bus campaign. It would be simply deplorable for the people behind that campaign not to have the right of reply. It has annoyed me for many years that you appear to have a policy of not allowing atheists, agnostics or humanists to speak on “Thought for the Day”. It is antiquated and offensive to presume that only religious thinkers have something valuable to say on issues of morality or ethics.
If you are to continue the policy or not allowing atheists, agnostics and humanists on the programme, then as a very minimum, it should be renamed to reflect its solely religious nature, and there should be an equivalent programme for non-religious listeners.
October 23rd, 2008 at 12:40
I wrote this:
“Dear Mark,
I find it hard not to put pen to paper and write to the governors concerning the breach of the BBCs own guidelines on balance.
Thought For The Day is absolutely fine with me as being a “faith” programme, but when it steps over the line from being a thought for the day to become a political platform by which atheistic campaigns are criticised it goes too far.
To redress this you should either invite the humanist association concerned on to provide balance, apologise for an editorial blunder or reign in the presenters.
[name and address censored]
October 23rd, 2008 at 14:25
Platitude of the Day, summed it up quite nicely as usual:
October 23rd, 2008 at 14:46
The TFTD on this subject needs a secular ‘right of reply’ on the Today programme.
However, if someone is allowed on you can guarantee it will be at 7.15am when most of the country is still just waking up, as usual.
Since the religious folk always say every other item is secular in nature on the programme then ‘we’ have plenty of air-time and hence do not need a TFTD.
October 23rd, 2008 at 14:49
It was my correspondence with Mark Damazer that was published by the NSS. This was my reply to him
Dear Mr Damazer
Thank you for your response to my correspondence. However I am astonished at its contents. In your opening paragraph you endorse the assertion that faith confers additional authority to the speaker and that morality is inevitably linked to religious belief.
Let me quote you: “Their authority is drawn from faiths that have survived the centuries, including periods of persecution and intense scrutiny and still proved themselves valid”.
As a private individual you have every right to hold these views but as the controller of BBC Radio 4 this partisan view is in opposition to your public service obligation of neutrality, objectivity and fairness. One is left in no doubt that the “authority is drawn from faiths” in your opinion justifies a ban on those who have no faith contributing to this programme.
You go on to say “So if you change the commissioning brief to allow in secular voices it would no longer be Thought for the Day” again your prejudice is staggering. The secular voice would include those who are atheist, agnostic and humanist, who are every bit as qualified and concerned to comment on current events in the context of an ethical and moral perspective as those of religious faith.
You continue “and I hear no appetite for such a change from Radio Four”. Perhaps you should visit the BBC forums and message boards where this complaint is regularly expressed.
You say “and serve the audience by giving them a chance to hear a perspective from the great faith traditions that have shaped our society and continue to wield enormous influence over current events”. These great faiths were also responsible for 9/11, 7/ll and countess other atrocities throughout human history and yet you still assert their moral authority.
As regards the extent of religious belief in the UK you state “The last census showed 71% declaring themselves Christian” and “In a survey a few years ago Radio Four discovered that one in four of its audience go to a worship”. I am happy to accept this statistic if it would result in TftD being delivered by a contributor who does not have a faith agenda on one day of every week that the programme is broadcast.
I ask you once more to change your mind
Yours sincerely
Graham Davis
October 23rd, 2008 at 15:08
A wonder if there is anyway to go over the head of the Today programmes head and complain about him directly. He clearly isn’t a suitable person to lead a suitable ‘thinking’ based programme. I’m outraged by the shameless bias.
October 23rd, 2008 at 15:12
Perhaps I was a bit wordy, but I’ve put my tuppence worth in:
October 23rd, 2008 at 15:42
I am a bit concerned that a part of the campaign reasoning is either being unheard or ignored. The explanation on the site about why the word “probably” is used is helpful , precise and fair , but as well as TfTD effectively misquoting it there are no fewer than 3 letters in today’s Telegraph all more or less making the same cheap jibe based on the use of that word .
I have sent a letter to the Telegraph editor , but I guess it is unlikely to see the light of day ; I am not terribly sure what you can do about TfTD , but I wish you luck .
October 23rd, 2008 at 16:32
“Graham Davis
Let me quote you: “Their authority is drawn from faiths that have survived the centuries, including periods of persecution and intense scrutiny and still proved themselves valid”.”
I would have thought that as ‘athiests’ existed way before theists and have survived the persecution, and continued persecution from religious sects and even more continued intense scrutiny *cough* Thought for The Day? *cough* that the secular community is even more valid in being included in the rota for this Radio 4 slot.
I am sure the Catholic Church would be happy to give us the lists of heretics they have tortured and burnt in centuries past for not believing in their god.
October 23rd, 2008 at 16:34
[...] the question is, will the Today programme let us have our say for once…? « Wednesday 22nd October 2008: Oliver [...]
October 23rd, 2008 at 17:26
@DavidFT
That piece by Platitude of the Day is brilliant! It really cuts through the bullsh*t, good post
October 23rd, 2008 at 17:30
These are portuguese newspapers and television channels
Sic online
http://sic.aeiou.pt/online/noticias/vida/20081022+Deus+provavelmente+nao+existe.htm
Publico
http://ultimahora.publico.clix.pt/noticia.aspx?id=1347201
Diario
http://diario.iol.pt/internacional/deus-londres-religiao-portugaldiario-ultimas-noticias/1005224-4073.html
RTP
http://ww1.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?article=369483&visual=26&rss=0
October 23rd, 2008 at 17:45
sorry, wrong thread, please re-direct
October 23rd, 2008 at 19:38
In the past pagans haven’t been able to appear on thought for the day either, not sure if this has changed recently (I rather doubt it)
“Their authority is drawn from faiths that have survived the centuries, including periods of persecution and intense scrutiny and still proved themselves valid”.”
October 23rd, 2008 at 20:15
I have sent Radio 4 this message. I hope it makes a mark.
Let atheists and humanist defend themselves from religious indoctrination by giving them a slot on Thought for the Day
October 24th, 2008 at 0:58
“Having listened to Rosemary Lain-Priestley commenting on the atheist bus campaign on Thought for the day i was thourougly stunned at the sheer abstract dreamyness of her comments and how far placed she was from reality. How similar the view of christianity and athesim are on this issue … is she even remotley aware of why this campaign started?
**snip**
surley an atheist campaign should have had an athiests opinon to explain why the campaign was started and what its true message was
after all i wouldnt expect an atheist to be telling me the christian message of christmas and the new campaign to raise awareness of jesus’s birth”
i guess i wont be getting a thanks for the e-mail personal reply
October 24th, 2008 at 8:16
My e-mail to the Today Programme:
RE – Thought for the day.
Dear Today, I would like to voice my protest at the current official BBC policy of not allowing humanist speakers on the ‘Thought for the Day’ section of the programme. Whilst I understand that the religious aspect / background of the speakers is the differentiating factor of this segment, I would argue that their content for discussion is usually more philosophical rather than spiritual.
A case in point would be the fact you have in the past allowed individuals who have Buddhism as their central belief system talk on ‘Thought’ and it is my understanding that Buddhism defined itself as a philosophy rather than a religion.
I believe given the popular, yet quiet, support for humanism in this country (as shown in the recent outpouring of support for the Atheist Bus campaign) it would be refreshing to hear a humanist talk for the first time on ‘Thought’.
Jack
October 25th, 2008 at 11:55
I know of several others who have also protested to ‘Thought for the Day’.
Do the BBC publish any of these on their website?
Have they made any response other than an email acknowledging receipt?
Best wishes
Bill
October 25th, 2008 at 12:24
It has taken me two years of lambasting the BBC over Thought for the Day before I finally got the extraordinary response from the controller of Radio 4 Mark Damazer, I have contacted every part of the organisation from the Board and the Trust members down to the programme makers and Feedback, I have even contacted contributors like the Chief Rabbi but without success, finally I received the email from Mark Damazer.
The BBC message boards often feature this issue.
For the record this is a summary of my complaint and his response
“Thought for the Day” explicitly excludes contributions from those who profess no faith; this is extremely insulting to agnostics and atheists who probably account for the majority of the UK population. For all the issues that are examined on “Thought for the Day” there is a distinctive non-religious moral perspective.
One concludes that the BBC endorses the assertion that morality is inevitably linked to religious belief and that faith confers additional authority to the speaker. In a secular society such as our, this is an unacceptable policy. I therefore ask the BBC to ensure that in future “Thought for the Day” will allow contributions from outside religious groups despite the discomfort that this may bring to those who produce it.
Dear Mr Davis
In response to your query about Thought for the Day on Radio Four, this reply is on behalf of everyone at the BBC you have contacted.
TfTD is commissioned as a theological reflection on current events. It is not an opinion piece. All contributors are told to ground their ‘thought’
in their own theological tradition, using the words of scripture or liturgy that have been worn smooth as a pebble by centuries of repetition and devotion. Their authority is drawn from faiths that have survived the centuries, including periods of persecution and intense scrutiny and still proved themselves valid. It is therefore a unique voice on the BBC. I would contend that the BBC should strive to maintain its ‘uniqueness’ in an increasingly overcrowded market place and serve the audience by giving them a chance to hear a perspective from the great faith traditions that have shaped our society and continue to wield enormous influence over current
events.
So if you change the commissioning brief to allow in secular voices it would no longer be Thought for the Day and I hear no appetite for such a change from Radio Four.
I do not accept that the majority of the country are atheistic or agnostic.
The last census showed 71% declaring themselves Christian and another 8% spiritual. Since then with immigration continuing apace from countries more religious than our own I see no reason to think the religious majority has declined. In a survey a few years ago Radio Four discovered that one in four of its audience go to a worship service every week so we know there is a lot of interest in the subject.
Secularism has not swept religion aside as some would have hoped, indeed some academics are writing about the new visibility of religion, albeit more fractured and fragmented than before. With religion so high on the agenda it would be a strange time to change the one place where it is possible to hear the intelligent religious voice in a secular setting and understand something of why millions if not billions of people still put faith at the centre of their lives.
Yours sincerely
Mark Damazer
BBC Controller Radio 4
October 25th, 2008 at 20:53
Have TFTD contacted the campaign yet?
I do love
So if you change the commissioning brief to allow in secular voices it would no longer be Thought for the Day
‘coz I never have a thought.
October 26th, 2008 at 0:30
“Their authority is drawn from faiths that have survived the centuries, including periods of persecution and intense scrutiny and still proved themselves valid.”
Atheists in the UK were executed through to the 17th century. In the 18th century they were imprisoned. Atheistic material was made illegal. It was pretty much the same elsewhere in Europe.
No wonder these religions have survived so long; they censored, imprisoned and slaughtered any opposition.
I wonder if they wear black uniforms and Christian swastikas over at the BBC?
October 27th, 2008 at 18:02
Recent donor Malcolm Dodd posted:
LET US NOW TRY TO OPEN UP “THOUGHT FOR THE DAY” TO THE NON-THEISTS; PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME HERE:
http://www.pledgebank.com/thoughtfortheday
Looks good!
December 8th, 2008 at 18:16
Praise God for ‘Thought for the Day’
The Christian content is always a timely
message to start the day.
Please keep up the good work!
As a back-slidden atheist it never troubled me that the programme should be aired. As a percentage of total air time during the week it’s content is absolutely minimal.
Be blessed,
Steve & Debs
December 9th, 2008 at 22:20
Can someone please tell me what Steve and Debs talking about? Do you think they actually know?
inarticulate incoherence turned into an art form!
Listen you two, take more water with it next time!
September 18th, 2009 at 18:47
I’d just like to draw your attention to this:
“The Atheist’s Guide To Christmas” is the UK’s first atheist charity book, featuring contributions from Richard Dawkins, Derren Brown, Ben Goldacre, Simon Singh, Claire Rayner, David Baddiel, Charlie Brooker and many more. It’s been edited by Ariane Sherine, the creator of the hugely successful Atheist Bus Campaign. It’s out on Oct 1st and all royalties are going to the HIV charity Terrence Higgins Trust. Please pre-order now:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atheists-Guide-Christmas-Ariane-Sherine/dp/0007322615/
The Atheist’s Guide is a mix of humorous and poignant contributions from over 40 various prominent atheists. It’ll make an ideal Christmas gift for your atheist friends. Your religious friends will love it too, or, even better, it’ll put them in a foul mood for Xmas! So a win-win situation! More info on the Facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=128903634833
Your support will not only maintain the profile of atheism in the UK, it will also help raise funds for the very worthy THT charity. Please note that the contributors, and Ms Sherine, have waived payment for their considerable input into the “Guide”.
Thank you, and please pass this message on to everyone you know!!
[My apologies if you already know about the Guide!]